Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V13_1/V13_165.TXT

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Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #165

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 13 : Issue 165

Today's Topics:
FTP sites for astro data/images (was Re: Yale Bright Star Catalog @ ftp site)
               Re: Controversy
            Re: SPS, Shuttle, Gaia
            Re: SPS, Shuttle, Gaia

Administrivia:

    Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to
  [e-mail].  Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests,
  should be sent to [e-mail], or, if urgent, to
             [e-mail]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 91 17:50:41 GMT
From: borg!vivaldi![e-mail]  (Jonathan Leech)
Subject: FTP sites for astro data/images (was Re: Yale Bright Star Catalog @ ftp site)

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
|> I know that I found the entire text of the Yale Bright Star Catalog in text
|> files at an anonymous ftp site about 3 or 4 months ago, and since
then I have
|> had trouble with my disk drives and cannot recover these files on any
computers
|> I have access to. I want to go back and get these files and put them
on my hard
|> drive until I get my floppy drives fixed, but can't remember where I got
|> these!! Does anyone out there know what ftp sites I got these from? HELP!!!

    Since the topic of online databases/images has come up several
times in the last few days, I'm posting a portion of the sci.space FAQ
additions which I've been working on.  These are currently under
review by a number of people; the full FAQ will be showing up on the
net in a week or two.

    The Yale catalog is at MIT - see item (1d).  For more esoteric
needs, try the NSSDC (1c).  There are hundreds of astronomical
datasets described under the 'ADC' menu entry there (including the
Yale catalog).    Please note these datasets are not online.  You must
file a request after which the data is put online temporarily for FTP.

    Jon
    __@/

1) Online archives of space-related information

1a) NASA Ames archives

    The most extensive archives are maintained at NASA Ames and are
    available via anonymous FTP or email. These archives include images and
    a wide variety of documents including NASA press releases, shuttle
    launch advisories, and mission status reports.

    FTP users should connect to ames.arc.nasa.gov (128.102.18.3) and look in
    pub/SPACE. pub/SPACE/Index contains a listing of files available in the
    archive (the index is about 200K by itself).

    To access the archives by email, send a letter to
    [e-mail] (or ames!archive-server). In the
    subject of your letter (or in the body), use commands like:

    send SPACE Index
    send SPACE SHUTTLE/ss01.23.91.

    The capitalization of the subdirectory names is important. All are in
    caps. The following is a list of the subdirectories that are currently
    available:

    APOLLO      GIOTTO    MANIFEST    PRESS.KIT     ULYSSES
    ASTRO      HEADLINE.NEWS MARS.ROVER    PRESS.RELEASE VICAR
    BBXRT      HST        MCSR        PROGRAMS      VOYAGER
    COBE      HUT        MISC        RADIO          WEATHER
    CONTRACT  IMDISP    NTE        SHUTTLE       WUPPE
    CRAF      OSR        SPACE.CLASSROOM FRR          PAYLOAD.STATUS
    SPACELINK GALILEO    LAUNCH.ADVISORY PEGASUS
    GIF      MAGELLAN    PIONEER        UIT

    The GIF directory contains images in GIF format. A few have been
    uuencoded so that they be mailed, but unfortunately the majority will
    not survive mailing. This will be rectified in the future. The VICAR
    directory has two Magellan images in VICAR format. A PC program capable
    of displaying these files is found in the IMDISP directory, although it
    is still a binary file (ZIP format) and so it is not suitable for
    mailing at this time.

    The NASA media guide describes the various NASA centers and how to
    contact their public affairs officers; this may be useful when pursuing
    specific information. It's in MISC/media.guide.

    Any problems with the archive server should be reported to Peter Yee
    ([e-mail]).

1c) NSSDC online catalog

    The National Space Science Data Center is the official clearinghouse for
    NASA data. The data catalog (*not* the data itself) is available online.
    Internet users can telnet to nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.4) and log
    in as 'NODIS'.

    You can also dial in via 301-286-9000 (300, 1200, or 2400 baud, 8 bits,
    no parity, one stop). At the "Enter Number:" prompt, enter MD and
    carriage return. When the system responds "Call Complete," enter a few
    more carriage returns to get the "Username:"

    The system is menu-driven; topics available as of 2/7/91 are:

    1   -    Master Directory - NASA & Global Change
    2   -    Personnel Information Management System
    3   -    Nimbus-7 GRID TOMS Data
    4   -    Interplanetary Medium Data (OMN
    5   -    Request data and/or information from NSSDC
    6   -    Geophysical Models
    7   -    CANOPUS Newsletter
    8   -    International Ultraviolet Explorer Data Request
    9   -    CZCS Browse and Order Utility
    10  -    Astronomical Data Center (ADC)

    Data can be ordered from the NSSDC on CD-ROM and other formats. Among
    the many types of data available are Voyager and other planetary images,
    Earth observation data, and star catalogs. Viewers for Macintosh and IBM
    systems are also available. As an example of the cost, an 8 CD set of
    Voyager images is $75.

    Nssdca is also an anonymous FTP site, but no comprehensive list of
    what's there is available at present.

1d) Astronomical databases (various sources)

    mandarin.mit.edu (18.82.0.21) has the following data available via
    anonymous FTP in /astro: StarChart v3.2, orbital elements for
    comets and asteroids, the Yale Bright Star catalog, and the
    Saguaro Astronomy Club Database.  Get astro/README.

    The ames archives (ames.arc.nasa.gov in pub/SPACE/) contain a
    database of 8,436 galaxies including name, RA, declination,
    magnitude, and radial velocity in MISC/galaxy.dat.    This was
    supplied by Wayne Hayes ([e-mail]).

    iris1.ucis.dal.ca (129.173.18.107) has a number of GIFs from
    Voyager, Hubble, and other sources available by anonymous FTP in
    pub/gif (most of this data is also in SPACE/GIF on the Ames
    server).  Please restrict access to 5pm - 8am Atlantic time.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 91 12:48:21 GMT
From: ksr![e-mail]  (Chris Jones)
Subject: Re: Controversy

In article <[e-mail]>, martinb@tplrd (Martin Brown) writes:
>On the issue of how they produced live TV transmission of Armstrong taking
>the first step on the moon:
>
>> I'm thinking of the black and white, very low-fidelity, real-time video
>> that was broadcast from the LEM as Armstrong descended the ladder for the
>> first time.  It was shot from a B/W tv camera in an equipment bay on the
>> side of the LEM.  [e-mail]
>
>As I understand it, this camera's main aim was to give a visual indication
>of how far into the lunar surface the LEM's feet had sunk. The ability of
>the lunar surface to support the LEM (or human beings) was unknown at the
>time. It turned out that the LEM feet didn't sink into the dust as much as
>expected hence the jump of a couple of feet from the bottom of the ladder
>onto the lunar surface.

Oh, come on!  We didn't send men until there had been a whole series of soft
landings by the Surveyor craft.  Surveyor was specifically designed so that the
loading on its foot pads matched that of the LM, so there was no doubt that the
moon's surface could support the LM and men (at least in some places).  The
Surveyors (there were 6 out of 7 successful flights, I believe) also measured
the chemical composition of the lunar surface and dug some trenches to further
examine the surface characteristics.  Surveyor 6 even relit some of its small
engines and lifted off and landed 8 feet away from its initial landing site.
(The Soviets also had a lunar soft landing program, which had realized two
successes out of more than ten attempts by the time of the first manned
landing.  Their method resulted in a rougher landing, which probably also
showed that the surface could support weight.  In addition, the US Rangers 3-5
had probes on them to perform a rough landing.  None of them succeeded, and by
the time the Rangers were working (numbers 7-9), the craft had been modified to
have more cameras and no rough landing capability.)

Both the Surveyors and the Viking landers on Mars immediately took photographs
of their foot pads to aid in determining the strength and composition of the
surface; perhaps you are remembering this story.

The long jump was caused because the landing was gentler than allowed for; the
legs could compress a little to cushion the landing.
--
Chris Jones    [e-mail]    {world,uunet,harvard}!ksr!clj

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 15:33:57 -0500
From: "Allen W. Sherzer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SPS, Shuttle, Gaia
Newsgroups: sci.space
Cc:

In article <[e-mail]> John Roberts writes:

>Some of the big US launchers are probably *slightly* cheaper per
>pound/kilogram than the Shuttle, but the small launchers tend to be *more*
>expensive.

I beg to differ. As it is currently used the Shuttle is about the MOST
expensive way to put a pound into orbit.

Consider the following table:

Vehicle                   Cost/flight          Cost/pound payload
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Shuttle [1]                 $428M                $8,570
(7 flights/year)

Shuttle [2]                 $375M                $7,500
(8 flights/year)

Titan III [3]               $125M                $3,906

Delta [4]                    $38M                $3,800

Pegasus [5]                  $10M               $10,000


The expendables are about half the cost of the Shuttle. If Pegasus
reduces it's cost by 25% (which should happen fast as they traverse
the learning curve) it will be competative with the Shuttle.

It would get even better if Titan V or HL Delta where to get funded
(instead of ALS). Costs for these vehicles would approach $1,000
a pound to LEO.

[1] This is from the NASA 91 Appropriation bill. They allocate ~$4
    billion for Shuttle Operations and Production. I assume that $1B
    is for 'production' (a very conservative estimate) and the rest is
    operations. The current manifest has 7 flights for this year.

[2] From the NASA 92 proposed budget. Costs are about the same but we
    have one more flight scheduled. Note that if flights slip then
    it adds to cost. Each flight which slipps past the end of the year
    adds ~50M to cost of all the other flights.

[3] From Avation Week Jan 8, 1990. The price of the launch is the 'list'
    price so you should expect to pay less. When new solids come on line,
    price/pound could drop to $3,125.

[4] Avation Week Feb. 19,1990

[5] Wild Ass Guess. From memory a Pegasus costs $10M and lifts 1000
    pounds.

  Allen
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Allen Sherzer |A MESSAGE FROM THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT TO THE PEOPLE OF KUWAIT: |
|[e-mail]   |       "If rape is inevitable, enjoy it!"                     |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 11:36:11 EST
From: John Roberts <[e-mail]>
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are those of the sender
    and do not reflect NIST policy or agreement.
Subject: Re: SPS, Shuttle, Gaia


>Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #139
>Date: 9 Feb 91 07:48:35 GMT

>>Subject: Re: Humanities Space Industry

>Nick Szabo Writes:
>>I challenge anybody on the net to present a business plan -- the market
>>plan, R&D plan, projected financing and cash flows will suffice -- for
>>any one of the following:
>>* space station
>>* lunar base
>>* Martian base
>>using current launch costs, historical R&D costs for manned
>>space capsules, space-qualified machinery, etc.   Fact is, nobody
>>on this net or anywhere else on this planet can present a sound
>>business plan that is within even two orders of magnitude in cost
>>to being profitable.

>Person:     Gerald K. O'neill , of, I think, Princeton U.
>Reference:  HIGH FRONTIER

Very interesting summary.

>(/c note re; shuttle prices)   The main reason that no one wants to invest in
>space in this country is the cost of launching.  Sadly, it's regional.  I don't
>know the magazine (I think it's Newsweek), but the title of the article is
>BIG DUMB BOOSTERS.  Look it up in the reader's guide.  Basically, the jist of
>the article is that the shuttle costs about 25 time more than expendable
>rockets, per kilogram.

Some of the big US launchers are probably *slightly* cheaper per pound/kilogram
than the Shuttle, but the small launchers tend to be *more* expensive. I
think there is realistic hope that the US could eventually make chemical
rocket launchers with cost/pound ~1/10 of current Shuttle prices, but it
won't be easy. Much of the US launcher industry is having trouble competing
with 'subsidized' and other foreign launch services, and in no mood to invest
a lot to design new launchers, unless the government is going to help
substantially. More exotic technologies, i.e. laser/linear launchers, may
someday provide greater savings.

>The problem is not the concept, but our creation.  We used state-of-the art
>materials that cost too much to maintain, and aren't sturdy enough to stand
>up to recycling.

The problem is not the materials, but the design tolerances. A good analogy
would be a car whose engine is as powerful as a V8, but which has been
cleverly designed with ultra-thin cylinder walls, tiny high-speed coolant
pumps, convoluted tubular piston rods, etc., so that it weighs only fifty
pounds. The performance it great - the only drawback is that every morning
before you drive to work, you have to take it apart and inspect it to make
sure it won't blow up, and every few months you have to replace the whole
engine.

>Tommy Mac             "Gaia is not an organism, for it has not reproduced"

Hm, I have mixed opinions on the Gaia Hypothesis. The idea that there are
massive negative feedback mechanisms in action on the earth that tend to
maintain livable conditions on the surface, and that living organisms have
a large part in some of these mechanisms is intriguing and properly correct,
but if we go on to say that the earth is therefore an organism, which must
therefore have other characteristics we associate with living organisms, then
look for these characteristics, and sit around debating their implications,
what does it get us? ("Gaia is an organism, some organisms like to play
pinochle, so now we must determine whether Gaia is the sort of organism that
likes to play pinochle, or the other kind.") Any mental model can be made,
but it's only useful if you gain some benefit from using it.

For instance, try changing the definition of life: "Life is now identified
by (all the previous definitions) OR by the state of being a quartz crystal."
This is a useful definition, because now if you take a living creature into
your home, you know to feed it and keep it warm and happy, OR to put rock
polish on it, depending on which kind of life it is.  :-)  :-)

Perhaps I misunderstand what the Gaia folks are trying to say.

>Acknowledge-To: <18084TM@MSU>

Do you have an Internet-equivalent address? My mailer completely fails
to recognize your address.
        John Roberts
        [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 09:11:37 mst
From: Svein K. Furre <[e-mail]>
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

sub space Svein Kare Furre

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 09:10:34 mst
From: Svein K. Furre <[e-mail]>
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

sub space Svein Kare Furre

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V13 #165
*******************